JOHAN LINDHOLM - CEO:
"FIVE SHORTCOMINGS OF VIETNAMESE WORKFORCE IN HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY"
Một phụ nữ Hà Lan tiêu biểu, bà Nienke Trooster - Đại sứ Hà Lan tại Việt Nam, đã nghĩ về người Việt nói chung và phụ nữ Việt nói riêng như thế nào, với kinh nghiệm hơn bốn năm sống và làm việc tại Việt Nam vừa qua
Biên tập: Nguyễn Kiều Vy
Interviewer: Thank you Mr. Johan for accepting our invitation to be here in this program. We would like to get your insight and information and experience about working in Vietnam over the past 3 years in hospitality sector, which I believe is one of the most emerging and fascinating industries in Vietnam. So, as a part of doing business in the field, you have a lot of opportunities to work with Vietnamese workforce. We would like to hear from you about your experience about the pros and cons of working with the Vietnamese workforce.
Interviewee: I think the hospitality industry actually fits very well to the Vietnamese culture. I think that the people in general are very genuine and very accommodating, and they have a great smile at the start so really for people coming into Vietnam, it is really a warm welcome just off the back. And that's hard to get in many other countries. That is something we have to train but here becomes naturally to people.
But with that having people who like to interact with people comes to few other things that makes a little bit difficult to integrate. International standards, for example. So my experience really when I first came in as I was overwhelmed with the genuineness and the willingness to accommodate, however if they don't understand it still yes, and then when you go back and you ask why it didn't happen, they still say yes. But it's really that they don't understand exactly what you're asking for. So, what I've learned so far in the three years here is you have to be very specific in your direction and make sure that the directions are measurable because one thing that the Vietnamese workforce is custom to is compliance. When you set out rules and regulations, they are very good at at following. But in our hospitality industry, if the guess asks for something that is kind of outside the compliance, outside the rulebook, the workers get confused, they don't know if they're allowed to do it or if they should do it. So often their answer is no which in the hospitality industry is really a word that doesn't exist when a guess asks for something.
Interviewer: But only you have just said that most of the time, they say yes.
Interviewee: If it fits inside the rules and regulations
Interviewer: Inside the box of rule and regulations, but outside the box, they say no.
Interviewee: Correct. The other interesting that I've learnt being here is that in the rest of the world we often talk about empowerment and allowing the workers or the one facing the customers to make a decision and the problem is in the Vietnamese language there is no word for empowerment. So it's really a concept that's not familiar. So when you then add the compliance to it, it is hard to make a person at the front to make a decision because they haven't been allowed to.
So even if you go all the way back to the 80s, Jan Carlzon wrote a book that's called ‘Moments of Truth’. He really turned the pyramid upside down and put all the decision power in the customer facing position which lower the amount of dissatisfied customers, but more importantly lower the amount of money that the service industry pay out to accommodate customers with complaints.
Interviewer: Well, your observation in your industry is very fascinating, actually refreshing because we don't hear that a lot from expats coming to Vietnam mostly talk about the good things that Vietnamese workforce, but looking really into the critical part that is what we would like to learn from. So basically, overall with all the situation you are facing with the characteristics of the workforces, what did you do to actually overcome all the challenges? What did you do to individual employee or you work with the boss above you? or What do you do to make the whole organisation changed in the way of going together to the one goal?
Interviewee: So really looking at the Vietnamese workforce that really five items that I have experience over the last three years and really looking at it in the five points is that they're sentimental, passive, also fear of accountability, a blaming game, and compliance. So if we go back to the sentimental, the Vietnamese culture is very people centric and people like to meet after work or even at lunch hours, they all like to sit around and talk. And with that, comes a lot of rumour spreading or talking about other departments really things that are breaking down the team from the inside.
So that when we're talking about the sentimental part is that when people talk about other people always somebody gets hurt. Over the last three years when I've been in Vietnam, I experience 5 things when I'm looking at the workforce. First being passive, second sentimental, three really lack of taking accountability, a blaming game, and compliance.
So if we start with being sentimental, the Vietnamese culture in general people like to hang out in crowd, they like to talk, they like to socialize. And with socializing in people-centric industry, people, of course like to talk about other departments, talk about other people at work which is often resulting conflict because somebody will say something that upset somebody else and when that person gets upset the people that are close to that person gets upset. So now you start getting different camps in the workforce, which is really counterproductive because it is breaking down the teamwork that hospitality is really built on.
So, how do you get around that? It is a little bit difficult because it is in the people's gene, because of the culture. So you have to try to understand how it works and who works with who and then you really need to set up special team for you actually take people from the different cliques and mix them in so that they are forced to work with people that they're not normally hanging out with. By doing that is slowly starts breaking down the barriers are naturally formed from the social norms that exist at the workplace.
Now when you talk about passiveness. People in general are very laid-back in the approach and which is okay in the hospitality industry because you really don't want to force our customers something other than what they want. So a lot of time in hospitality it is actually good to sit back and understand what the customer wants before they really know what they want. But, what happens is you have to tell the staff to do it once, you have to tell the staff to do it twice, you have to tell the staff to do it three times. But what I've learned in this culture too is that we go back to the compliance. If you make a checklist and you train the people on the checklist, then it happens. But if it's more verbal and coaching as you go along, it doesn't stick. They will do it one or two times but not in the long-term and being consistent. So the best way to interact with the staff when it comes with routine work and things that you want them to do on a consistent basis, it is really to do a thorough checklist and then trained the staff on the checklist. Because once they are trained on the checklist, they will follow it all the time.
Now accountability. A lot of times there's two things that come hand-in-hand here: accountability and the blaming game. This is where the rules and regulations that are formed in many companies here actually have some severe punishment if people don't follow the rules. So, by nature people will become very defensive and protect themselves or protect their friends. Again, it goes back to the sentimental game where people are protecting each other and now we go back to the clique.
How do you really address this? Again when you break the cliques down and you have them work in different groups now with the checklist now, they are compliant to the checklist so less chance of errors. But now who do you make accountable for the checklist? That's where each shift and each pre shift is very important to continuously talk about the checklist and why it's important because the worst part that can happen to the checklist that it is just a piece of paper that people always I did I did I did that is really not what I'm talking about. I am talking about a living checklist that the supervisor when he address the shift reminds them at least 2, 3, or 4 points of the checklist everyday so that it becomes a living document and then suddenly it becomes their habit and then once it is a habit it will happen automatically and you only have to spot-check.
This is why it takes a lot of time to really set up the process of the checklist and then to let the team understand that they are accountable to the checklist as a whole not necessarily one individual. And this also will break down the blaming game between people but also between departments.
Now we are going to talk about the compliance. So in general here in Vietnam, when we talk about quality, the quality department is called quality control where in other regions of the world, it is called quality assurance. So what's really the difference? The difference is quality control is there to find out the problem, and whose was that fault and make them compliant. That's really what quality control is here in Vietnam in the hotel industry. When you look at quality assurance, quality assurance is about finding out what process went wrong, how it went wrong, and then go back to the department of the GM and give them solution about how we correct the process so that the problem doesn't reoccur. So the two different ways of looking at it, quality control is understanding the problem and then automatically assess whose was that fault and then take care of whose is that fault. With quality assurance, we look at what went wrong in the process, what can we learn from the mistake so that it doesn't reoccur again and then educate the staff on the process. So that's really two fundamental differences when it comes to compliance that understanding what went wrong and then fix it and let people learn from the mistake or you find a mistake and you issue a warning to the person that made the mistake. Now, which one is going to reoccur? The one where you only issue warning to the person that broke the rule or made a mistake. The rest of the team doesn't know. Where if you fix the process and it let everybody learn from the problem, now, you actually address a big audience, which means that it won't reoccur again.
Now I've talked about how to really understand the labor force but there are two sides to the labor force when you come into this market and in the hospitality in Vietnam. Of course you have your team in the hotel but you also have to manage your relationship with the owner or the owning company, which can be a little different to what you used to outside Vietnam.
The one thing that I've learned over the last three years is that as a manager of a hotel, you need to understand that you need patience and what I mean by patience is that when you suggest changes or you suggest new ways of doing things, it's not just to suggest and implement. It's really about educating and letting the owning company or your manager know how the process is going to work and what the benefits are not just to operation but also to the company as a whole. And once you understand how to communicate with your managing company, it becomes a lot easier to manage folk up and manage down.
And how to do that? Of course the difference is based on whatever company you work for. However, it's very important to is that when you communicate, you be short and to-the-point. Don't try to write a 5-page essay about a process or procedure. Really think about how you can be precise and specific in a very short document because it's less chance of misunderstanding based on language, but also a lot easier for people to read and implement. So it's really about thinking about the core that you want to communicate and then write it about that, not about all the things around it, really stick to the point.
When it comes to organizational changes, one thing that you need to bear in mind is that the hospitality industry in Vietnam is still fairly new. So a lot of the Vietnamese companies are looking at the rest of the world and they're seeing what is happening in Singapore, seeing what is happening in Hong Kong, they see what's happening in America, and in Europe. Now, they like to take the best out of each and then implement and what happens is that they do that today, but then 3 months from now they hear a better way and then they will change it again.
And then what happened is that you just started to get the momentum of the one that you changed 3 months ago, and now you have to retrain everybody in and change it again. And then what happens is often as the year goes by, we go back to the first one again, which means that there's a lot of changing, and going back and forth before you get to the process that you are happy with but also the one that the company's happy with. So when I talk about patience earlier is that a lot of things that you do is trial and error and not just trial and error for the customers and for your team, but it's also trial and error for the owner and the owning company to understand what fits them and their culture the best. It might not be exactly what you propose, it might be slightly twisted or slightly changed, but it is still your idea and I think it's important to understand that when you present an idea, be open-minded because they might take 20% of your idea, they might take 80% of your idea. But you need to be open-minded and tailor it to what they exactly want but also what they need. And once you understand that, it becomes a lot easier to operate, not just up but also down and laterally.
Through out my 3 years here in Vietnam, I've had the opportunity to work with We at work on few different occasions where I have encountered either conflict one of the teams I work with or conflict with one of the employees I work with and each time. I reached out to We at work in order for me to better understand how to address the situation or get a suggestion on how to communicate my idea and for that I thank We at work.